THD Hot Plate Idea

[metallistad]

So, I have a Marshall JCM 2000 DSL100 amp. At present time, I'm running it with two cabinets (8 Ohms), one Behringer 412 with 4 Ohm 70W Jensens in it, the other a Gallien-Kruger 210 which I'm making my drummer's monintor so he can hear me without relying on a sound guy. SO, here's my idea:

If you hook up this whole setup AS IS, BUT add a THD Hot Plate onto the 412 Behringer to lower down the volume without having to sacrifice the volume of the 210 GK for my drummer, could it actually be done AND be safe?? If it sounds like a good idea, which Hot Plate should I go for?? 8Ohm? 16Ohm???

Also: I'm up for any kind of other idea that might not involve me purchasing a $325-350 piece of equipment.

[diabolical]

I am not sure about the hotplate idea - they're generally meant to be used with only one load, so I am not sure about two cabs.

I'd personally get the drummer on headphones and give him his private mixer. That's what we did with our drummer - he kept complaining that it wasn't loud enough so we got him sound iso headphones and a small mixer, then we feed his a signal from our rigs and he mixes it to taste.

I'd say it would probably be cheaper for you to get a crappy PA amp, a solid state amp (one of the Crate Blocks or Ibanez heads comes to mind) or a powered PA speaker and give him that as a monitor than to get a hotplate.

[phrygiandom]

I run my Hotplate with two cabs all the time. As I was told by THD in an email, the only thing that changes is that when using two 8-ohm cabs and the Hotplate, plug it into the 4-ohm socket on my Mark-IV. I bought the 8-ohm Hotplate, the purple one. It allows me to really push my Mark-IV for recording purposes...and not cracking the foundation of the house.

But as you describe, you want to run one cab straight out of the head and the other one with the Hotplate in the signal path. Right? I personally don't see how that would be a problem, but I'd write THD just to make sure.

I really like my Hotplate, as it gives me lots of options. You also get a post-power amp line out to be used for recording/running a "wet" rig/etc.

[metallistad]

I am not sure about the hotplate idea - they're generally meant to be used with only one load, so I am not sure about two cabs.

I'd personally get the drummer on headphones and give him his private mixer. That's what we did with our drummer - he kept complaining that it wasn't loud enough so we got him sound iso headphones and a small mixer, then we feed his a signal from our rigs and he mixes it to taste.

I'd say it would probably be cheaper for you to get a crappy PA amp, a solid state amp (one of the Crate Blocks or Ibanez heads comes to mind) or a powered PA speaker and give him that as a monitor than to get a hotplate.

well, mind you, I would be using the Hot Plate with the 412 cab (for the house mix). The volume of the 210 would be controlled through my head (for my drummer). I would love to do that with him, but he'd be a purist drummer (as I see it) and say no to the headphones. The first time he'd ever heard anything through headphones was when we went into the studio. He acted like a cat taking a bath! lol

I run my Hotplate with two cabs all the time. As I was told by THD in an email, the only thing that changes is that when using two 8-ohm cabs and the Hotplate, plug it into the 4-ohm socket on my Mark-IV. I bought the 8-ohm Hotplate, the purple one. It allows me to really push my Mark-IV for recording purposes...and not cracking the foundation of the house.

But as you describe, you want to run one cab straight out of the head and the other one with the Hotplate in the signal path. Right? I personally don't see how that would be a problem, but I'd write THD just to make sure.

I really like my Hotplate, as it gives me lots of options. You also get a post-power amp line out to be used for recording/running a "wet" rig/etc.

Yeah, I'll definetly give them an e-mail and ask. I'm definetly hoping I have a good idea!

[soundgardener75]

I think the main concern here is that you're using two cabs that have two different ohm loads. So yeah, see what THD thinks, but I'm pretty sure they'll say that it's not a good idea. If you were using two cabs that are 16 ohms, I think that won't be as problematic.

[metallistad]

I think the main concern here is that you're using two cabs that have two different ohm loads. So yeah, see what THD thinks, but I'm pretty sure they'll say that it's not a good idea. If you were using two cabs that are 16 ohms, I think that won't be as problematic.

well, the 412 is rated for 8-16Ohms with 400W (which is BS since the speakers are each 4Ohm 70W) and the 210 is 8Ohm and 200W. I'll still ask them, but I'm almost certain it might work....

[diabolical]

LOL @ drummer being a purist! Professional drummers wear headphones all the time!

If both cabs could be set at the same load it should work.

I'd still analyze your drummer's situation. I find it strange that he needs just your guitar there and not the bass in the mix as well, maybe even some vocals. There are usually PA systems to handle those situations, wedge monitors, etc.

Think about the second head or even a combo amp for your drummer to hear you, it would be cheaper in your case. If all you're worried is that you amp is too loud for the mixing engineer, then you can get a HK Redbox that the engineer can use to mix FOH without miking you or buy a mic that can handle higher SPL levels.

Usually when I play live I just take my 2x12 and that is enough, I run my rig (JCM900) lower than rehearsal volume, at about 6 and that is miked. I can hear my cab projecting but it needs a little push through the PA which is what it gets. A good live engineer will know how to mix that to make everyone happy.

[9ball]

it should work just fine. as long as you match up the ohms on everything correctly- and use the right hotplate. your amp doesn't know what you're hooking into the signal path between it and the speaker load- all it knows is that it's running a load, or loads. so you run one cab straight from your head, and the other from head to hotplate to cab and everything is the same as before you just have a hotplate between the amp and one cab.
just make sure you get the right hotplate to match the impedence when you're running 2 cabs.
i see them on craigslist sometimes for around 200.

[metallistad]

LOL @ drummer being a purist! Professional drummers wear headphones all the time!

If both cabs could be set at the same load it should work.

I'd still analyze your drummer's situation. I find it strange that he needs just your guitar there and not the bass in the mix as well, maybe even some vocals. There are usually PA systems to handle those situations, wedge monitors, etc.

Think about the second head or even a combo amp for your drummer to hear you, it would be cheaper in your case. If all you're worried is that you amp is too loud for the mixing engineer, then you can get a HK Redbox that the engineer can use to mix FOH without miking you or buy a mic that can handle higher SPL levels.

Usually when I play live I just take my 2x12 and that is enough, I run my rig (JCM900) lower than rehearsal volume, at about 6 and that is miked. I can hear my cab projecting but it needs a little push through the PA which is what it gets. A good live engineer will know how to mix that to make everyone happy.

Yeah, I know! He doesn't really know what all goes through the "mechanical" aspect of what stringed musicians do. It's funny...

The only reason I want to give him a monitor of just me is a good amount of the music in my band is guitar centered PLUS all the idiots around here (the northwestern washington area) really can't do much with my guitar in a monitor mix. Yeah, they can throw my vocals into his monitor, but when it comes to guitar, it falls short. SO, by doing it this way, we're covered on our front and the sound guy can just throw vocals in his monitor and maybe a little bass for him to hear. Mind you, we've been through at least FIVE or more bassists through this band, so that's why he mainly follows what I do on guitar more than anything.

Also, with my amp, I'm running out the 8Ohm split to the two cabinets. Then, using the main volume on my amp to however loud he needs and use the Hot Plate at whatever loudness the venue needs for the just-case they happen to tell me to turn down. And, I'm in the process of possibly getting a 212 slant cab (the speakers are going vertically) from a friend of mine soon. Don't know what the wattage or Ohms are yet, but I might use that instead of the GK 210.

BTW, diabolical, you kick ass!!

[metallistad]

it should work just fine. as long as you match up the ohms on everything correctly- and use the right hotplate. your amp doesn't know what you're hooking into the signal path between it and the speaker load- all it knows is that it's running a load, or loads. so you run one cab straight from your head, and the other from head to hotplate to cab and everything is the same as before you just have a hotplate between the amp and one cab.
just make sure you get the right hotplate to match the impedence when you're running 2 cabs.
i see them on craigslist sometimes for around 200.

yeah, I feel like I got it right. SO, what would be the right one?? Should I go for the 8 or 16?? Should I match it up with the load I'm giving off of the amp, right??

[steambird]

so that's why he mainly follows what I do on guitar more than anything.

your supposed to follow the drummer, they're the ones that set the time...

[metallistad]

so that's why he mainly follows what I do on guitar more than anything.

your supposed to follow the drummer, they're the ones that set the time...

well, if you heard the music, you'd understand. I'm not some cookie-cutter metal guitarist. Not that there's anything wrong with that... *shakes head* *points at self* BIG EGO!! lol

[9ball]

yeah, I feel like I got it right. SO, what would be the right one?? Should I go for the 8 or 16?? Should I match it up with the load I'm giving off of the amp, right??

i dont know i cant really tell what you meant when you mentioned the ohms of your amp and cab. what ohms are your cabs and what ohm ratings does your amp have exactly?

[diabolical]

My problem with the attenuator would be that your speaker balance could get slanted, i.e. left side vs right side and blow the amp down the line.

The way I usually do it is set my cab on par with the drum riser so the speakers are a bit behind the drummer as well so it is projecting, then we crank them. The other guitarist is doing the same thing on the other side. So usually that and whatever pitiful level they give him in the monitors takes care of his problem.

Again back to your dilemma. If he has to have his mix and all he needs is guitar - get him a powered PA speaker and feed your line out from the amp. This way you won't have to worry about it and it might actually be less stuff to carry:
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/navigati ... aker&Nty=1

Not that having an attenuator is a bad thing - it could come in handy when recording and you want to get more power tube saturation on tape.

[metallistad]

SO, I went and talked to the people at THD and they said that as long as the impedance of the cabs are the same, I'm good. And, btw, I told my drummer we should go half and half on buying the Hot Plate.