Black Sabbath's Tony Iommi and Metallica's James Hetfield met up with Guitar World for an interview that appeared in the August 1992 issue.

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James, many bands have modeled themselves after Metallica. How does that make you feel?

HETFIELD: It's like being bootlegged. You can't get mad about it, because there is nothing you can do. In a way, it's very complimentary. It's pretty flattering to think that people are taking the time to copy my style. When they get really close to ripping off actual riffs or parts of songs, that's when you have call them up and say, "Hey, what the hell are you doing?" [laughs]

Actually, me and my buddy Bob were talking last night about how bands have gotten really competitive lately. I think it has a lot to do with last summer's Clash of the Titans tour. I didn't like the fact that Megadeth, Anthrax and Slayer were talking shit. Before, the attitude was more like, "Come on, buddy, let's jam." We were fighting for the same cause -- getting our music heard. There doesn't seem to be any unity anymore. It's just too damn bad.

IOMMI: It was really much the same in the early Seventies with us and Deep Purple. We were really concerned about who was going to sell more records or chart higher. And you'd say to yourself, "I hope they don't."

HETFIELD: What kind of amps have you used through the years?

IOMMI: I used Laneys for years.

HETFIELD: What did you use for distortion?

IOMMI: Basically, I just used a little box called a Rangemaster, which boosted the input. Now they build that directly into amps, don't they? Believe it or not, I went to several companies 20 years ago and said, "Can you build this in an amp?" They all said, "Don't be stupid, nobody's going to want to buy something that distorts an amplifier." I said, "Of course they will. If they like that sound, they'll buy them. If they don't, they'll buy your ordinary one." And it took them 15 years before they realized what I was saying. In fact, Laney came to me later and said, "Now we know what you were talking about."

HETFIELD: How did you come to use a Gibson SG?

IOMMI: I played a Fender Stratocaster up until the first album. Then, just as we were getting ready to go into the studio, one of the Strat pickups blew. I thought, "What am I going to do?" As luck would have it, I had an SG laying around. I'd bought it as a spare, but never played it. At first I was frightened, thinking, "God, I'm going to have to use this one now, and I've never played it." But it worked out fine, and I've used it ever since.

HETFIELD: Same thing happened to me. I was playing a Flying V all the time, and one day the headstock broke. I had an Explorer as a backup guitar, and it just felt right.

Tony, didn't you replace one of the SG's pickups?

IOMMI: Yeah. Over the years I've tried to get various guitar companies to get involved with me, but none of them really worked out. So I put the money up and bought my own guitar company. I hired a fellow named John Birch to design whatever I needed. John, incidentally, made my first 24-fret guitar. I had approached Gibson, and they said, "We can't make a 24-fret instrument, we're not interested." As soon as they said "can't," I said, "That's it, I'm going to do it." So I got John, who was a bit of an eccentric, and he said, "I'll have a go at that." So he made this guitar, which I've still got at home. Next I said, "This is great! Now we've got to design our own pickup." So we went through a period of trying different pickups. John would wind each one differently. And when we found a pickup we really liked, we'd make a few that were very similar. They were never exactly the same, but similar.

Tony, tell James what happened to Mr. Birch.

IOMMI: Oh, he's in jail now. He poisoned his wife to death. He was very eccentric.

HETFIELD: He's winding his pickups in jail now, huh?

IOMMI: Yeah, it was too bad. We were beginning to do quite well, although I was a lot more interested in my guitars than in making guitars to sell.

James, were you ever interested in custom instruments?

HETFIELD: Never.

IOMMI: The only reason I got involved in guitar-making was because there were few alternatives to the mainstream companies. Now there are lots of guitar companies, pickups, effects and gadgets to choose from. In the Seventies, there was nothing.

HETFIELD: Do you down pick most of your rhythm parts?

IOMMI: Yeah, they sound heavier that way. The big problem with being the only guitar is that you have to work hard to keep the bottom from falling out. I tried all sorts of things, like I'd create rhythm parts that would allow the low E string to ring as much as possible. And Geezer played an eight-string bass, which helped for a while.

Although many people credit Edward Van Halen, you were actually one of the first guitarists to detune to an Eb, which helped create your signature dark sound.

IOMMI: People would always tell me, "You can't lower the pitch of your strings, that's not right." I actually used several different tunings. I would try anything. Occasionally, I'd tune as much as three semi tones down for Ozzy, because he couldn't hit certain notes.

HETFIELD: Wow! So you tuned down to a C sharp or something?

IOMMI: We'd try anything to make our sound heavier.

HETFIELD: Wasn't it hard to stay in tune, especially since you use .008's?

IOMMI: It was. Particularly with my Gibson, because the neck would shift.

HETFIELD: On the other, hand, the combination of light strings and detuning must've made it easy for you to bend strings and apply vibrato.

IOMMI: Actually, I had to use light strings. I had a work-related accident in the early Sixties that cut off the tips of my fingers. As a result, I can't bend heavier strings. I can't even feel the strings. [Shows his amputated fingers.] See, this one's cut off, and that one's gone off that way.

HETFIELD: [visibly shaken] Wow!

IOMMI: Suddenly, I had to develop a new way of playing. Ironically, I had the accident on the same day that I was supposed to quit my factory job to tour Germany with this group. So when I started playing again, I had to devise a new way. I used to play a lot with my forefinger and pinky because the two middle fingers were bandaged up. I learned to use and bend with my little finger a lot.

HETFIELD: You never tried using your right hand?

IOMMI: Well, I tried, but it was too difficult -- I was too impatient to try playing the other way: I just couldn't get the hang of it. As you can imagine, I had to learn to play standard chords in very unorthodox ways. Then I created these plastic thimbles that extended the length of my fingers, which allowed me to play in a normal fashion.

HETFIELD: Why do you need the thimbles? Why can't you just use your shortened fingers?

IOMMI: There's only one layer of skin that covers the bone. Sometimes when I'm playing with the thimbles and they come off -- sshhh!

HETFIELD: Ouch!

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