“Whenever I feel like a guitar is indispensable, I want to pawn it. It’s held me back from being a good player”: Want to make as many records as King Gizzard & The Wizard Lizard? Abuse $10 amps, don’t bring songs to sessions and never get comfortable

Since 2012, Stu Mackenzie’s band King Gizzard & the Lizard Wizard has dropped a whopping 27 albums, classified by many as psych-rock. It doesn’t bug him now. “I used to care about this stuff,” he says. “But people can call it whatever they want.”

On latest release Phantom Island, Mackenzie continues to run a gamut of jazz, rock, guitars and loads of strings. “Everything that you do is all kind of joined,” he says. “Sometimes you think you’re doing something really fresh, new and exciting. But you’re always tied to what you’ve done in the past.”

Should we expect to wait long for King Gizzard’s next album? “I feel a bit of a duty to keep working, and keep on the tools,” he reports.

“Having a job in this business is a bit like a snowflake in your hand. But it’s hard to finish things if you have the creative hat on all the time. It’s finding that balance.”

How do you keep up such a breakneck pace in the studio?

“I don’t know, man – it’s the only way we’ve ever operated. I feel like there’s probably more than one factor. But first and foremost, the other guys like making music together. They’re my best mates, so it’s not just work; it’s a joy.”

Is there ever a moment where you’re not working?

“There are definitely times that are more creative. I see the creative thing as holding a cup out in the rain, filling it up. Sometimes it’s raining really heavily, and sometimes it’s not raining at all.”

King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard - Grow Wings and Fly (Official Video) - YouTube

Watch On

Do you see each album as a continuation of the last, or are they standalone pieces?

“I think any artist who’s released more than a few albums would say they’re inherently connected. You don’t go to bed, wake up the next day and it’s like a brand new start. Your days blur together; your experiences join.”

Do you tend to start out writing on guitar?

“It depends. I’ve always felt most inspired when I’m kind of uncomfortable, so we deliberately change the writing process to put ourselves in different scenarios. It’s like, if you give a painter a crayon, they’ll do something inherently creative because it’s not their medium.”

What sort of gear guided you through the process for Phantom Island?

“With Phantom Island, the songs were written at the same time as Flight b741 [2024]. There were 10 songs on each, and we did all 20 songs in one hit.

“It was like going back to basics in a lot of ways. We didn’t use much in the way of pedals, headphones or fancy stuff. It was, ‘Let’s make the music that’s coming out of the fingertips.’ There’s a lot of acoustic guitar, piano and acoustic instruments that just make a sound.”

But there are electric guitars, too.

“We were just plugging into amps and turning them up as loud as we could to get the sound! It was that basic thing; we landed on a tone and feel that’s maybe our middle ground.

“The idea was not to be too prescriptive. Nobody was allowed to come in with finished songs. All you could do was scribble out a few chords on a napkin. Nobody could say, ‘Hey, play this line,’ or, ‘I’ve got this specific idea.’ It was more, ‘What’s the essence of the song? Let’s just hit record until we basically get a take and feel good about it.’”

You’re obviously pretty free-flowing, but are there any specific bits of gear you feel are essential?

“As soon as something feels core or quintessential, I want to get rid of it – it’s a problem I have! I feel like I want to explore the room, then I want to move on to the next room. Maybe I learned things in this one room that I can apply in the next room; but essentially, I’ve already done that. So whenever I feel like a guitar is indispensable, I want to pawn that guitar!

“It’s a bad way to be – it’s held me back from being good at any instrument. I’ve spent so many years playing and producing that I don’t feel like I’m virtuosic on any one thing. I’m too inclined to burn stuff down. But having said that, there probably are a few things that felt key to this session.

King Gizzard & The Lizard Wizard - Le Risque (Official Video) - YouTube

Watch On

“All the guitar amps on the album were these $10 solid-state pieces of shit, running as hot as possible! I’ve done it quite a lot over the years, usually for effect. It’s like amp abuse! It kind of goes back to The Kinks and that speaker distortion thing.

“People don’t do it very often because they expensive amps, and they’re worried about them dying. But when you use $10 pawn shop amps, you can abuse them. And they’re actually more resilient to that abuse because they don’t have expensive parts. The cheap parts are kind of unbreakable.”

So do you feel you have an identity as a guitarist?

“I try to be identity-less. My true self, I hope, doesn’t try to emulate people. I don’t have the skill set to emulate stuff; I’m chasing a feeling, a vibe, an atmosphere. I probably do have my own tropes, but they’re things that I feel like I can’t avoid. They’re inherent in the anatomy of my hands and shit like that!”

Have you considered a world where you slow down and don’t release music so often?

“Yeah, I do – increasingly so. I just want to do what feels right. Like, I don’t want to force anything. If I don’t feel like standing out in the rain with my cup, then I want to follow that and be true to that.

“I think that time will come. And in some ways, if you look at the frequency of releases, perhaps we have actually slowed down a little already. But we’re also having more fun than ever and feeling more inspired than ever before. My creative appetite feels really sated now in a way it didn’t in the past.”

• Phantom Island is out now via P(Doom) Records.