“You could sing along to the songs – including the solos. You can really mess a song up by playing the wrong solo. You can put people off”: Phil Collen on Def Leppard x Tom Morello, his love of thick guitar necks – and why Pyromania still blows him away

He may have spent over four decades in the biz, but Def Leppard guitarist Phil Collen is still just as excited about playing guitar in a rock ’n’ roll band as in 1983 when the band dropped its landmark album, Pyromania. And why shouldn’t he be?

Not only is Def Leppard still packing stadiums – and not only was their last record, 2022’s Diamond Star Halos, a smash hit – but now they’ve got another hit on their hands in single Just Like 73, an outtake from the Diamond Star Halos sessions and featuring Tom Morello.

To this, Collen beams, telling Guitarist: “It’s just constantly ongoing. I love the fact that we’re so excited and passionate about it. It kind of takes you to another place, so when people say, ‘Why do you still do it?’ Well, it’s because we love it.”

He adds: “It’s so exciting. You kind of get little-boy enthusiasm, and we’re both two guys over 60 and we can still get really excited. So I can’t wait until we get out on tour. We’re going to record some stuff on tour as well.”

The tour Collen speaks of is Def Leppard’s latest mega-jaunt across the States this summer, which will see the band dropping musical dimes in the form of classic Pyromania cuts, such as Photograph, Foolin’ and Rock Of Ages.

For Collen, memories of Pyromania are particularly sweet, as it was his first record with Def Leppard and is beloved by fans.

Looking back, he recalls: “It was the first time I’d done it… my first gig with Def Leppard was at the Marquee Club and that was it. We were playing half-empty theatres around England and during that tour it blew up.”

Def Leppard - Just Like 73 (Official Lyric Video) - YouTube

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It’s hard to fathom a Def Leppard show that doesn’t include a typically shirtless Collen with a Jackson Dinky slung low, waving his fist in the air out front of hordes of adoring fans. But before Pyromania blew the lid off the thing, that’s exactly how it was.

“You had MTV, which was kind of in its infancy,” Collen says. “But it became a very serious medium for people to hear and see music. That was really important.”

As for why Pyromania resonated the way it did, Collen explains: “It was the right time. We’re a hard rock band, but you could sing along to the songs, including the solos – that was the really important part. I’ve always stressed that you can really mess a song up by playing the wrong solo; you can put people off. So it’s important that when you do a solo, it has an emotional feel and melody that’s really captivating.”

Right on through to today, Collen has continued to heed his own warning. But without the lessons learned during his inaugural Pyromania sessions, that might not be the case.

“It’s about enhancing every detail,” he says of what he learned. “It wasn’t just playing guitar; it’s actually way more of an important role. If you’ve got great songs, then you enhance them, make them sound better and add richness, complexity, the nuances of the song – and even all the lyrics pop out more.

“So that’s what I learned, and when I go back and listen to that type of stuff, it’s like, ‘Whoa, this is incredible.’ It still just blows me away.”

Def Leppard has a new track featuring Tom Morello called Just Like 73. How did that come about?

“When we were doing Diamond Star Halos, we were basing it on the music that really changed the world for us. I remember seeing David Bowie and Marc Bolan, so we basically came up with a list of songs while just writing for each other as fans. And then we realised we had an album – and this was during Covid.

“We always refer to that era as ‘hubcap Diamond Star Halos,’ a line from a T.Rex song [Bang A Gong (Get It On)]. It summed up the feeling and vibe. Anyway, we’d done all this stuff and all these songs as tributes to our heroes, and we had so much fun doing it, but there were some songs we didn’t finish…”

Was Just Like 73 one of those unfinished songs?

“Yeah, it was based on sounds we would have heard in ’72 or ’73, but we never finished the song off. Brian Monaco, the president of Sony Music, played the demo to Tom Morello, who is a big Def Leppard fan, and he’s like, ‘This is awesome.’ Brian asked us, ‘Would you like to have Tom play on it?’ We said, ‘Absolutely.’

“You know, I love Rage Against the Machine and I love his vibe. So that was as easy as that. I had a few phone calls with him and I met him, I think, for the first time in 2022 when we went out with Mötley Crüe. We had a blast.

“The hybrid guitar/hip-hop thing, it’s just so real. It was a pleasure to have Tom onboard. He understands the whole Diamond Star Halo thing because he grew up listening to everything that affects us, so that was it in a nutshell.”

Def Leppard hit the road with Journey in North America this summer. When you’re putting your rig together, what pieces of gear prove to be essential?

“I use the Fractal [Axe-Fx] now. I’d use the Fractal on my chorus and delay stuff on stage, and I remember when I was on the G3 tour, John Petrucci had the Fractal Axe-Fx, and he said, ‘Oh, you gotta check this thing out.’ And now, since 2018, me and Vivian [Campbell] have used it.

“They’re really good about upgrading the software and it really makes a difference. My tech, John Zocco, is great because it leaves me in the dust a bit, but he’s into it and technical, so he’s able to make changes, like putting the compressor in the front of all this stuff and all that real geek stuff. My tech thrives with the stuff and is an amazing player as well.”

You’ve got a nifty new Jackson T-style, too.

“I just recently got my new favourite guitar! Jackson made me a ‘Telecaster’[-style model] that’s just amazing. It’s got a [DiMarzio] Super Distortion in the neck position, no whammy bar or Sustainer, and it’s got the fattest neck Jackson has ever made. Joe Williams, who is a luthier at Jackson, said, ‘I’ve kind of made it really big and tried it out…’ I said, ‘Okay, am I going to be able to play this thing?’

“It’s a beast. I love it. It’s easy to play and the tone is just ridiculous. It’s an ash body with a cut-out like a regular Telecaster, but there’s a bit more wood involved because the neck is so heavy and big.

“It’s a prototype, this one, and my tech had to put a couple of bars that are actually old blocks that we took out when we put the titanium ones in, so we have a couple of them to balance this thing out because it’s so big.

“The tone on it is crazy! We recently recorded a live thing for Sirius XM in LA. It’s one of my favourite and best-sounding guitars, and it kind of freaked me out. They’re actually building me another one; I’ll be using that on tour for sure.”

Are there any guitars you’ve had forever that you can’t imagine hitting the road without?

“The Bela Lugosi one [1986 Jackson Dinky]. A lot of people go, ‘You’re crazy for taking that out; it’s from 1986!’ It was in a bunch of our videos: Animal and Armageddon. It’s got massive frets, it’s been refretted, and it’s got a skinny neck because it was from the ’80s. And it’s got the old Jackson pointy headstock with the paint that still glows in the dark, you know, the Bela Lugosi thing.

“It’s a pretty exciting artefact that still sounds amazing. It really is true with old guitars – as the moisture leaves the body, the whole thing actually does make a difference in the sound. The thing really sounds great, even with all that paint on it.”

For the uninitiated, what’s the story behind that guitar?

“It’s gotten better with age; it’s literally one of those stories. Before I lived in California, Grover Jackson said, ‘You know, we can paint anything.’ They’d been at all these different factories and there was this one place and I went down there with a photo of Bela Lugosi from this Forbidden Planet comic store, and they said, ‘We can do a version of that with this paint.’

“What’s really funny is that there was a bat that got into the workshop, so there were drawings of all the specs and everything on the table – and above it there was a bat. They said, ‘It’s a vampire bat,’ which was kind of rare in California. Anyway, that was the story of that.”

What makes it special beyond its looks?

“It went through some changes. It used to have a Kahler [vibrato] on it, but we swapped it out for a Floyd Rose. I usually change the parts, like titanium saddles, and it’s got a DiMarzio Super 3 in it – two of them, actually. It’s got a coil tap… It was all incremental.

“It was all of these geeky little things that we do, and as long as it makes it play, sound and respond better… that’s really what you want with all those upgrades. It’s incrementally gone a lot further without messing up the aesthetic and keeping the original spirit.”

Before your relationship with Jackson, you were very into Ibanez and Japanese shred guitars, right?

“Classically, it was the Ibanez Destroyer, which I actually used to record the Pyromania album. All the solos I did – specifically, Photograph and Rock Of Ages – were done on a Destroyer with three pickups. That guitar was a custom one for me.

“It was kind of like the Peter Frampton or Ace Frehley Les Pauls, you know, the three-pickup DiMarzio Super Distortion thing. So it had that and then it had a Kahler on it, and it sounded great. It’s the one that was in all the videos.

“I love the Ibanez stuff. I’ve even got a knock-off Ibanez V; the thing is a monster. It’s got a beautiful sound and tone to it. Just incredible.

“It’s a wonderful guitar. When we did the Taylor Hawkins benefit at the LA Forum it made an appearance. And Pat Smear, the guitarist in the Foo Fighters, he originally got [a Destroyer] because he’d seen me play one at the LA Forum in ’83.

“Mine was at the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland [Ohio], so I got them to send it back, and I didn’t tell Pat, but he played it all night when we played together at the Taylor tribute. That was a lovely thing.

“Jackson made me a version of it. It’s got a sustainer, a kill switch, and it’s made of basswood, so it’s kind of light. Again, the neck is so chunky on that thing. I got that in 2017 and it comes out all the time. It’s my tip of the hat to that era. Everyone has their thing, but, for me personally, I like the Jackson, especially some of the stuff they do for me with the giant necks.”

Pyromania turned 40 last year and features some incredible tones, as always. What were the keys to your sound back then?

“With my favourite guitar players, I’d really get excited about their vibrato – Michael Schenker and Eddie Van Halen early on. That’s why I got a 50-watt head because of Schenker. It wasn’t the master volume one; it was one that you’d have to crank up. I had one in my old band, Girl, and this thing was just beautiful.

“A lot of these old tube amps, for whatever reason, one would be great and one would suck, even though they’d be the same model. Mine was great. And the Def Leppard guys mic’d all these things up with 4x12s and spent ages trying all these different amplifiers.

“But I literally came in, put my 50-watt head on, plugged in and that’s how it sounded. That was it; I never used pedals at all. Even now, it’s all done through the Fractal, so if there are effects, that’s where they come in, from the internal of the Fractal.”

As you recorded Pyromania, was there a particular guitar moment that immediately stood out?

“I guess the first one I did was Stagefright. Mutt Lange, our producer, said, ‘Take this cassette home and see if you can come up with something for this song.’ This was my first recording with the band and I literally plugged the Destroyer straight into the Marshall. It was the only first take on the album. I just plugged in and that’s what came out.

“That was really exciting. I mean, I used my Les Paul on the solo Rock! Rock! (Till You Drop) because there’s a slightly different feel and sound. And again, the one constant was the DiMarzio Super Distortion; I’ve used them on all the models I have forever.”

How did Pyromania change you as a player in a way that’s still present today?

“Mutt Lange taught me that there’s a rule… A lot of rock guitar players don’t really listen to the rest of the band, which is a very self-absorbed approach, so what I learned from him was how to play in time with the rest of the band. You can place your focus anywhere on the beat, but Mutt’s whole thing was to delay it a bit, which gives more groove and makes it more sexy.

“I really brought that aboard to my playing. And just the melodic strategy and how important it is to have something that enhances the storyline or the narrative. If you’ve got backing vocals supporting the lead vocals, the guitar also does that. It’s all about promoting your song and making it the best it can be.”

Def Leppard - Photograph - YouTube

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Beyond the tour and single promotion, what’s next for Def Leppard?

“The most exciting thing is that we’ve got a brand-new stage set, so there will be a lot of running around – it’s massive. It reminds me of when we played in the round. There’s so much there with the production, the screens and all the content. Anyone who has seen us in the last 10 years knows this is going to be different. It’s going to be way more exciting.

“Beyond all that, we’ve got a bunch of things coming up. There are some European things we’ve got to do. And there’s talk of us doing a Vegas residency with an orchestra. We’ve done the thing with symphonies before [Drastic Symphonies]. That was No 1 for 11 weeks on the crossover classical charts, which was so weird. We never thought we’d be on the classical chart, but there it was. So that’s what we’ve got to do.”

Diamond Star Halos came out two years ago. Is there a new Def Leppard record in the works?

“We’re feverishly working on new music. Joe [Elliott] and me were going back and forth this past Sunday, kind of like we did during Diamond Star Halos, where I’m getting excited about this new song, and then there’s another, and we want to make it better, put backing vocals in the right place and find the right sound.”

• Just Like 73 is out now via Mercury.