“We’ve always played fast, and that hasn’t changed. But the big thing is finding new notes that instantly fit within that zone”: Herman Li on DragonForce’s new era of maximalist shred, AI in music and the fine art of string bending

Musical extremes have always been part of the DragonForce experience. And while de facto leader and guitarist Herman Li is working to expand his horizons via social media, the band’s five-years-in-the-making studio record, Warp Speed Warriors, is brimming with forward-thinking guitar heroics.

Li is the tinkering sort, who loves gear and – despite his monster chops and ability to outright shred – refuses to fully adhere to DragonForce’s extreme-meets-Nintendo metal past. 

“At the beginning of our career, I was just trying to show my unique style,” he says. “But now I’ve grown that same style into something beyond only playing fast.”

But not to worry, DragonForce aren’t about to unleash a new wave record, nor does Warp Speed Warriors represent an unexpected journey akin to Metallica’s St. Anger. 

Songs like Burning Heart and The Killer Queen are not-so-gentle reminders to those who grew up with fake guitars in hand while pretending to shred Through the Fire and Flames that, as Li puts it, “DragonForce will continue to do whatever the fuck it wants.”

“The shredding is still there,” he continues. "But with guitar solos, I’ve got to mix it up. I don’t want to have just one style over another because you lose originality. But I’m not trying to be someone else. 

“When I do a solo, the mindset is never, ‘I’ve got no new ideas,’ or ‘This solo belongs here because it sounds like me.’ I’m always trying to be original and find new things.”

DRAGONFORCE - Burning Heart (Official Video) - YouTube

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Still, with its endlessly over-the-top, in-your-face and hyper tongue-in-cheek vibe, it’s obvious where Li had his mind’s eye trained when coming up with material for Warp Speed Warriors. Not that high-speed ballistics are bad – especially when you’ve based your entire career on them.

For the most part, Li agrees, saying, “We’ve always played fast, and that hasn’t changed. But the big thing is finding new notes that instantly fit within that zone. I play fast, but I’m not only trying to shred, so I had to put a bit of a different hat on.”

But that’s how you learn new things, he says. “Sometimes you have to take back what you know and add more style. I’ve recently played over jazz stuff on live streams; it was good to sit down and become part of a new train of thought rather than always playing fast.”

And so, perhaps the most refreshing part of Warp Speed Warriors is the fact that heaping doses of humility permeate the thing. 

“I’m better now because I recognized that I needed to get better,” Li says. “But even if I could go back and redo our old music, I absolutely wouldn’t do it. No way. Those imperfections, or whatever you want to call it, made those songs what they are. And my lack of ability back then gave me the insight I needed to grow and strengthen my playing. 

“No one wants to hear classic stuff recreated. I don’t. I leave whatever it is back in its era and always look toward the future. I can’t speak for anyone else, but that’s how I do it.”

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Warp Speed Warriors is DragonForce’s first record in five years. Where have you been in that time?

“Good question. When you make music, you do it at the right time to make it as good as possible. If you try just to pump music out, you become like a fast-food chain, right? So, we only release music when we want to and feel it’s good enough. 

“We spent a lot of time on this record, and even though we haven’t made an album, there’s so much more we’re doing online these days, too, so there’s at least been a lot for the fans.”

There are a couple of things to unpack there, starting with only making music when it’s good enough. What was it about these songs that told you they met the DragonForce standard?

“The standard of what we do with our music has moved in different directions as we’ve gotten older. We’re doing other things that led to a more diverse, dynamic album. 

“In the early days, it was about playing fast, going to extremes and shredding until we dropped. Now we can combine styles; I wouldn’t say experiment, but maybe add more simply because we’re better players now.”

DRAGONFORCE - Astro Warrior Anthem (Official Video) | Napalm Records - YouTube

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But the music still ultimately needs to sound like DragonForce, right? Your sound is so unique; you wouldn’t want to lose that.

“That’s a good point. When we made our first few albums, we could slow down the music, but we decided to make what we call ‘extreme power metal,’ which was faster, longer and had more and more guitar solos. As Yngwie Malmsteen once said, ‘More is more,’ and that was the motto. 

“These days, we’re more about melodies and dynamics; but don’t get me wrong – there’s still more. [Laughs] It’s just that we’re showing different sides of us. I guess what’s come out of a lot of the YouTube and Twitch stuff is that we in DragonForce do whatever the fuck we wanna do.”

It sounds like DragonForce is as much about a mindset as it is about making music.

“Yeah, I guess it is. We spent a lot of time on this album because we didn’t want to be in golden handcuffs where our success enslaves us. We’re a self-managed band and do what we want to do in the studio and on stage. All the elements you see come from the time we spend and how we design it.

“We’re not hiring people to do things for us; our image is on us. Sure, we want people to like what we do, but it has to be authentic. Knowing that this is created by us, designed by us and executed by us makes it so that, even if we wanted to, we couldn’t pump things out like fast food.”

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You haven’t entirely moved away from the “more is better” mentality, though, as Warp Speed Warriors is loaded with dueling guitar solos. Is it hard to find space to shine sometimes?

“Everything we do is to make the song better, you know? [Guitarist] Sam [Totman] and I each contribute our skills based on what we do best. Whoever plays a specific part, it’s done that way because we decided it was best for the band. 

“If I have a weakness, maybe Sam will fill that void, and when it comes to guitar playing, we’re not trying to outdo each other, even if we joke around on stage about that. We complement each other and find space to do our own thing. We’ve always been conscious about not doing something that could hurt the other player.”

Regarding your style, how do you approach leads and rhythms?

“My style has grown a lot since starting to do live streams on Twitch. I’ve played a lot in the last few years, like the [2021] Jason Becker campaign [a two-month-long fund-raising marathon that raised cash for the former Cacophony and David Lee Roth guitarist, who has been living with ALS for more than 30 years], where I got to jam with Marty Friedman, George Lynch, Tim Henson and others; that changed me. When we play in one band, you don’t get to jam with other players, but during the Jason Becker thing, I did, and my improvisational skills improved.”

How does that differ from Sam?

“With Sam, I think his playing is still – and this is not a bad thing – closer to what you’ve heard with DragonForce. So I’m now bringing a different tone, maybe not as fast – and other note choices. 

“I’m trying to grow and increase the amount of note choices I have. After making so many albums, you play the same way, and it sounds the same. I’m always trying not to sound the same by doing new things with dynamics and speeds.”

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Which songs from Warp Speed Warriors best represent that new approach?

“Maybe Doomsday Party, which is slightly different. It’s got a more mid-tempo, weird, dance-type of production, along with the typical metal vibe. And with the solo, I didn’t want to approach it the old DragonForce way; I think you’ll hear it. 

“But it’s not all new, meaning there’s stuff here that fans will identify with, like Astro Warrior Anthem, which has about seven guitar solos. We definitely want to mix it up, but we’re not trying to be someone else.”

Were there any solos or songs that gave you fits while recording them?

“One of the first songs we did was Kingdom of Steel, which is a ballad, and that was difficult. All the slow, ballad-type stuff is always tricky. It’s harder to get the right vibrato, and it’s not easier to find the sweeter sort of dynamics that I look for. The band’s feeling changes there, but it’s always different when there’s no shredding.”

Some would say there needs to be less shredding and more feeling, in general.

“Like all the great young shredders, many new players have a certain mindset because shredding is so much fun. But sometimes you can forget about the fine art of string-bending, and what happens is you overplay. Finding a balance between shredding and keeping the subtle nuances apparent is always a challenge.”

DragonForce - Doomsday Party (Official Video) - YouTube

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To your point, one of the more overlooked nuances within your playing is your vibrato. What’s your secret to keeping them apparent in the madness of DragonForce?

“Vibrato is so important. If you can finish something with some nice vibrato and a good string bend and make the notes sing, those are the notes you want to sit on.

“Those singing notes mean more than however many arpeggios, and I’ve been working to develop that even more. I did that on the live streams when I’d play slower music and do more jams, where I’d put on random backing tracks and play over them.”

What’s the secret to your tone these days?

“I’m not using my old signature Ibanez [EGEN18]. For this album, I used a custom guitar I’ve been developing with PRS, a significant departure from the Ibanez as it has Fishman custom pickups, giving me a new voice. And the timing is perfect, as I’ve been jamming and trying new things. 

“I needed a new guitar that was not designed in 2007. [Laughs] If you compare the Ibanez to the PRS, it reacts so differently with the Fishman pickups, and the voicing is more antsy, mature and perfect for me as I’m more knowledgeable than [I was] in 2007.”

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While you’ve heavily embraced social media through Twitch and YouTube, there’s growing concern about AI and how we consume music. 

“I think you’ve just gotta keep moving forward and be flexible. I know no one likes change – especially guitar players – but technology and social media have been great for finding new things. 

“No musician wants to be told what to do, and as creative people, it’s important to find new ways to be flexible. You’ve got to find ways to take advantage of these platforms and see what works for you rather than ignore it. If you do that, you’re throwing away all the tools at your disposal.”

Do you see yourself expanding further through social media and streaming?

“I’m not sure I can. [Laughs] I’ve used TikTok, YouTube and Twitch, and we have a million subscribers. But I’m always open to new things that help reach a different audience. It depends on what you’re looking for and what type of music you play. 

“But there’s a business side to it where you need to understand each platform individually, regardless of what you play. It’s like learning an instrument; you’ve got to learn the platform. Just posting isn’t enough; you need to learn how to do it right. But having said that, I’m pretty much maxed out.”

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Unless DragonForce go the way of Kiss and become digital avatars.

“That’s not really such a bad idea, to be honest. There are so many crazy ideas on successful digital platforms, so why not try them? Many musicians think these things are cringeworthy and don’t want to accept different and new things, but we need to be open. 

“A guitar player on these platforms might not need to be a master, but you can fully control your music if you have good knowledge of the platform and the music business. And that business part, as musicians, might be boring, but it’s important. If you can’t control that and have no understanding of it, sooner or later, if success finds you, you’ll have problems and lose control of what you create.”

Social media and new approaches aside, how will you continue to expand what you do in the future?

“I’ll always try to improve. I want to get better, make our stage show bigger and ensure that when you see DragonForce, it’s an experience to remember. It’s not just about guitar solos. It’s the whole thing, you know? I look at the entire thing from a third-person point-of-view, to where what they see, hear and feel is something to remember. 

“I had no knowledge of that when we started, but now I look at all aspects of things and the guitar beyond just my fingers touching the strings. What I’m saying is that there is more to this than just guitars and songs. I want to keep growing all of that. But a lot is happening, so we’ll see how we do that.” 

• Warp Speed Warriors is out now via Napalm.