“I always wanted to reconcile, tell him there weren’t any hard feelings and end things on a friendly note. I got to do that”: Jake E. Lee had a hero’s welcome at Back to the Beginning – but mending his rift with Ozzy Osbourne was what meant the most
Lee reflects on Ozzy’s final show, explains why he never bore a grudge over being fired, and recalls how the late Prince of Darkness made him a better guitarist with a single comment
Things might have gotten messy during his time in Ozzy Osbourne’s band in the early ‘80s, but Jake E. Lee can set that aside and because of what the late Prince of Darkness meant to him.
“He changed everything for me,” Lee tells Guitarist. “He put me in the spotlight. Whether that would have happened if I hadn’t been in his band is anybody’s guess.”
Lee had to deal with the added pressure of replacing Randy Rhoads, who’d died in a plane crash in 1982. A maverick with no interest in imitating Rhoads or becoming a fashionable Eddie Van Halen clone, he struggled to connect with Ozzy on a personal level.
They weren’t like brothers and they weren’t best friends. In fact, Sharon Osbourne allegedly pressured the young and green Lee into signing a contract that saw him miss out of writing credits and boatloads of cash associated with 1983’s Bark at the Moon.
As a result, while recording 1986’s The Ultimate Sin, Lee fought for proper payment and credit – which likely contributed to his firing in 1987. But even so, Lee says he liked Ozzy.
“He had a rare personality. A lot of people are kind and have those same qualities, but it really shone from him. He was this clownish, funny, sweet guy; I always felt that way and I think everybody else felt it too. That’s why it’s so hard to fully comprehend that he’s gone.”
After his dismissal, Lee did just fine for himself with Badlands and Red Dragon Cartel. He didn’t keep in touch with Osbourne, and as time passed, he started to feel that, compared to Rhoads and Zakk Wylde, his accomplishments with Ozzy weren’t important.
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Still, time heals most wounds, and years later Osbourne himself acknowledged Lee’s writing contribution to Bark at the Moon, writing in the liner notes to 1997 compilation album The Ozzman Cometh that “Jake came up with the riff. It was the first song we wrote together.”
Lee‘s participation in Ozzy’s Back to the Beginning final show in July wasn’t just about reconnecting with and celebrating the singer, but also about redemption for him, his era of the band, and his unique guitar playing.
“Everybody was so supportive,” Lee says. “Nuno [Bettencourt] in particular surprised me. I assumed he kinda knew who I was, but I didn’t think he’d ever like me or anything. But he was so supportive and helped me a lot, and so did Tom Morello.”
Lee knows that one gig doesn’t change decades of reflection on what happened in the ‘80s. But he does feel better about and it all – and can comfortably claim a weight legacy, particularly the song Bark at the Moon, “It was such a good tune,” Lee beams. “It helped confirm that Ozzy wasn’t over just because Randy had passed. I’m proud to have been a part of that.
“I always wanted to reconcile, tell him there weren’t any hard feelings and end things on a friendly note. I got to do that.”
Where’s your head at after Ozzy’s death?
“I hadn’t seen him in almost 40 years. We hadn’t been in contact. But he might be the single most important person that happened to me in my life – other than my wife!
“He’s the person I’m most connected to as far as the general public is concerned. For most people, he was the highlight of my career. The fact that he’s gone now – I’m still wrapping my head around it. His personality was so huge, and even though he abused himself so much early on, he survived. I always thought he’d probably outlive me, so it’s a big loss.”
It seems Ozzy had a certain magnetism that drew people to him.
“Yeah, magnetism is a good word. He was bigger than life – but deep down he was a kind man. He made you like him and you felt like he liked you too.”
Ozzy had a unique relationship with all his guitar players. What was yours like when you joined his band?
“Well he wasn’t really a father figure, and not really a brother. I suppose for me it was less familial. We never really got that close; I don’t know why that is. Our personalities didn’t mesh as closely as his did with Randy or Zakk.
“It worked well, I liked him and I assumed he liked me – but it was always awkward around him. He was the boss; that’s how I looked at him. But on stage it worked. There was a definite connection.
I did always want to reconnect with him on whatever level. Not necessarily musically, but that would have been nice
“On a personal level it was less so. It just didn’t happen that way. I don’t think it was my fault or his fault; it’s just the way it was. He sent me a text after the Back to the Beginning show and it was really sweet. It was about getting together once he came back to LA, so we could sit down and actually talk.”
What do you think he wanted to talk about?
“I don’t think it was any big deal – I think that after all these years, he just wanted to catch up. I’m glad he sent that text. I’m glad I went to Birmingham, and got to talk to him even if it was just for a minute or two.”
Did you always want to talk things out, and even play with Ozzy again?
“I did always want to reconnect with him on whatever level. Not necessarily musically, but that would have been nice. I didn’t want it to end with getting fired and feeling like there was bad blood.”
How did being fired make you feel?
“I never really took it personally. He said some things about me, but I never said anything bad about him. I stated the facts – I got kind of screwed over on the Bark at the Moon record. But I knew it was a business move, and that it wasn’t based around fucking me over.”
What was it based around?
“Getting as much money as he could! And when he fired me, the feeling I got from people in the industry was shock. He talked some shit about me; but I always assumed he did it because he needed to have a good reason for getting rid of me.
“I never really fired back because I knew I’d never win. Getting into a fight with Ozzy Osbourne through the press, he’s gonna win. And I still liked him, and I still liked Sharon.”
You could look at it like Sharon trying to ensure her husband’s career was resurrected after being fired from Black Sabbath.
“Yeah, that’s pretty much the way I felt about the whole thing – and money has never been important to me. People don’t believe that; they say, ‘Yeah, right!’ But it really doesn’t.
“I’m kind of like a hippie! If I have enough money to get by, that’s all I need. I don’t need a mansion. I don’t need a Ferrari. Money corrupts so many people. I never let it corrupt me. If I wanna do something I’ll do it, and I’ll see if I can get paid for it.
Punk was big and I liked it. But I couldn’t go to any of the shows because I had long hair
“You can offer me a lot of money to do something, but if I don’t want to do it I just won’t. The fact that they made money on some of their business decisions at my expense is not a big deal to me. It’s wasn’t about money with Bark at the Moon – it was always about the credit.”
Despite that, and even with the focus on Randy, your era has become beloved.
“It seems that way! And it was some good stuff. I think a lot of people were just mad that it wasn’t Randy. I’m not him, and that pissed a lot of people off. But I brought some good stuff.”
At that time you were one of the few LA players who weren’t trying to emulate Randy or Eddie Van Halen clone. The fans picked up on that.
“I agree – I did sound different than all of them. I’m not sure why that is. Maybe it’s because I had a little bit of punk in me? When I came to LA in ’80 or ’81, punk was big and I liked it. But I couldn’t go to any of the shows because I had long hair. If you went to those shows back then and you had long hair, you were guaranteed to get your ass kicked!
“I was welcomed with open arms by the LA metal community. I think that was the determining factor in my playing. But I always really liked punk. X was my favorite LA band, more than Van Halen – and I loved Van Halen. To me, X was just the ultimate rock ‘n’ roll band.
“And I always had this sort of violent attitude towards my guitar. I was maybe more aggressive than a lot of other LA players. Maybe that helped define the difference between me and the other guys.”
It must have felt good to represent your era of Ozzy’s career at the Back to the Beginning show.
“It absolutely did. That was a big part of the whole week. And at some point, I was wondering if there was a memo put out by everybody to go out of their way to make Jake feel good about himself! I started looking around for a bucket of pig’s blood; Someone would say, ‘Okay, no more pretending,’ and then I’d get dunked!”
The acclaim is a testament to how people feel about your era.
“Honestly, I don’t think I ever felt that. That might be my fault. It might have been me going online – which is always a bad idea – and reading about all the reasons why I was the worst Ozzy guitar player, and starting to sort of believe it a little bit.
“Well, not believe it, but let it weigh on me. That’s just human nature. You see something where there’s 99 comments about how good you are, and then you read one where you’re shit, and that’s the one you remember!”
Did the experience in Birmingham help reframe some of that negativity?
I got more focused and better at my craft with Ozzy. He did make me a better guitar player
“Maybe somewhat. I do feel a lot better about it. What I have to think about now – and this is a little difficult – is saying, ‘Okay, now I can go out with more confidence, have people talking about me, and get a good thing going.’
“I could also look at it as, ‘Well, that would be a good way to leave on that high note.’ Because I’m trying to figure out what exactly it is that I want to do now.
“I’m proud of what I did with Ozzy. I don’t necessarily think it was the high point of my playing. But I was really good, and Ozzy did make me better. In Hollywood I was maybe considered the top guitar player, or at least in the top three. But when I joined Ozzy I got a lot better.”
Can you track why, or how, specifically?
“It was a do-or-die moment. I do see how I got more focused and better at my craft with Ozzy. I should have thanked him for that, and during my last talk with Ozzy, I did. He did make me a better guitar player. He made me look at my guitar playing more.
“The solo from Bark at the Moon is an example. I had the second half all worked out, and the first half was something completely different in my mind. It was more melodic; more like a Neal Schon thing.
“I was sure it was gonna work. I can still hear it in my head, and I still think it would work! I spent all night trying to get it the way it sounded in my head, and I know [producer] Max Norman was getting frustrated. And I was frustrated.
“But Ozzy walked in and said, ‘What the fuck is that?’ I said, ‘It’s not exactly how I want it, but it’s close.’ He said, ‘No, no, that’s not working. Just go out there and jam.’ I was like, ‘Why not? I’ll try it.’
“And I think the solo that ended up on the record was my second take of just jamming. Ozzy said, ‘That’s it!’ Max said, ‘Yeah, I think that’s it.’ I was like, ‘Really? I didn’t put any thought into it. I’m just sitting here ripping it out. How can that be the solo?’”
Ozzy’s advice about just jamming is good advice for any young player.
“Yeah. And now, years later, I can look back and go, ‘I see how that works!’ He made me rethink how to play the guitar. I appreciate that.”
Andrew Daly is an iced-coffee-addicted, oddball Telecaster-playing, alfredo pasta-loving journalist from Long Island, NY, who, in addition to being a contributing writer for Guitar World, scribes for Bass Player, Guitar Player, Guitarist, and MusicRadar. Andrew has interviewed favorites like Ace Frehley, Johnny Marr, Vito Bratta, Bruce Kulick, Joe Perry, Brad Whitford, Tom Morello, Rich Robinson, and Paul Stanley, while his all-time favorite (rhythm player), Keith Richards, continues to elude him.
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