Karnivool fans have learned to be very, very patient. In the decade waiting for a new album they’ve had sporadic tours and a few tasters of new material from the stage, but only one bona fide single – All It Takes – five years ago.
If the follow-up to 2013’s Asymmetry ever surfaced, some thought, surely there’d be no way it could deliver on such long-gestated expectation. Well, it has and it does.
In Verses is a triumph from a band who does things their way, one that finds them exploring again with Forrester Savell, the producer-mixer-engineer who helped them break through with 2009’s modern classic Sound Awake.
In sonics and spirit, In Verses feels more like the successor to that album than the more abrasive Asymmetry. More emotional and melodic, leaning into the personal experiences of vocalist Ian Kenny, it’s full of lush guitar orchestrations and interplay from Drew Goddard and Mark “Hoss” Hosking.
It showcases their Tool-like ability to be both an inspirational musician’s prog band, and one with the majestic melodies for crossover appeal.
How does it feel to get the album out at last?
Hosking: It’s weird to reflect on it after such a long time. When you hole up in a studio – or a place or a city, for that matter – for a really long time, but you don't get to show anyone what you're working on, there's definitely a lot of pent-up frustration. So there’s excitement to finally get it out there.
A lot of bands shy away from road-testing material, but there are songs here that you’ve been playing live for years. Is that important?
Andrew Goddard: Part of it was to bring them into a better state. It really helps the songs. The other part was we just needed something new to play on the road!
In the past, songs like Goliath and Dead Man were road-tested a lot and were almost in their final form by the time we went in the studio. Aozora was road-tested quite a bit. We were playing that almost 10 years ago in a very prototypical form.
I think the songs that we got to road-test are better off. At the same time, some of the songs you don't get to road-test, and ones that come together very quickly towards the end, benefit from not overthinking – just letting it form quickly and having a bit of trust.
Bit and pieces of Remote Self Control were around for a long time, but it fell into its final form fairly quickly before pre-production, and then we hammered it into its final shape in pre-production. Opal was another one like that.
I remember doing a rig tour and I was like, “Oh my God, these are Soundgarden-level tunings!” Are there any new tunings for this one?
Goddard: I do mess around with my tunings a lot. There's some brand-new ones. Drone is EBDGAE, but all down a semitone. It’s an interesting shape, a different flavor. On this album there’s a lot more baritone, which sits in a related key a little bit below this and above the bass.
There’s all sorts of wacky things on there. Soundgarden was probably the band that got me into messing with guitar tunings and odd time signatures. They were a big influence to all of us, actually.
Does the idea in your head dictate the tuning, or do you mess around with different tunings to see what happens?
Goddard: It’s usually just messing around. But often it’ll come from getting an initial idea down, then grabbing another guitar and messing with the tuning to something that’ll work. It’s quite often open tunings. This time there’s even a bit of standard tuning and capos, which is quite fresh. When you don’t use standard tuning for years, it feels like an alternate tuning in itself!
You’ve got a few PRSs in your collection. Which is the oldest?
This fella brought down a pedal for me, all gaffer taped-up so no-one could see what it was
Goddard: It’s actually a Frankenstein. I found out from Winn Krozack from PRS, who was an in-house guy when we played Baltimore 15 years ago. He said the neck is from one guitar and the body is from another. It’s been everywhere with me. I bought it secondhand in the ’90s. It’s missing a couple of original things I probably won't be able to get anymore…
PRSs look really good bashed up.
Goddard: Yeah, the coloration of the neck; lots of sweating.
You mentioned the baritone. Was there any other new gear or secret weapons in the studio?
Goddard: This fella in the Goldfields brought down a pedal for me, and it was his secret weapon – he had it all gaffer taped-up so no-one could see what it was. But it was actually the Schaffer wireless replica that I think Angus Young and Eddie Van Halen used.
I don't know if it’s true, but the story goes that Angus wasn’t sure why it didn’t sound exactly the same when he was in the studio. They realized it was him using a lead and not going into his wireless that made it different. So he went into the wireless, and realized it had a gain stage that gave it this top-end, sort of crunchy tone. They put that preamp stage in a pedal.
We used that as a bit of a character to put a bit of a shine on certain sections – a bit more sustain. It’s got a limiter, so you can see the waveform is just squared off a little bit. It didn’t look pretty, but it sounds good!
You guys don’t really go into rock tropes but Reanimation has a guitar solo in it.
Goddard: That’s the one and only Guthrie Govan on that! He’s a weapon, that guy. I don’t consider myself much of a lead player, to be honest.
Hosking: I think we're both drummers at heart!
Goddard: I tried a few things and it just wasn’t sitting. We thought, “Maybe it just doesn’t need anything at all.” Guthrie was keen – he came back with that over a couple of nights. It was very last-minute and he really tortured himself over like 20-30 seconds of music. He really stretched himself. We’re very appreciative. There was a choir vocal in there, which we took out after Guthrie did his thing.
Is one of you going to have to figure that out live?
Goddard: We haven’t figured that out yet! He did ask, “Are you planning on replicating this live?” He said he’d done a guest guitar part for another band, and they had a little bit of trouble replicating it!
Hosking: He was probably kind to us in his arrangement. I think he was thinking, “Don’t be too flourishy,” just in case we sat there going, “What was that – how do we do that?”
Hans Zimmer was talking about bagpipes on the Dune soundtrack: ‘Actually, they're not real – that's Guthrie’
Goddard: But it’s not going to sound anything like him when we do it. I’m not sure if we’ll do something of our own or try and replicate it, but it’ll definitely be different, because there’s only one Guthrie.
Salva is an incredible track. When did bagpipes enter the equation – and are they real bagpipes?
Goddard: Yes and no!
Hosking: They didn’t start out as real.
Goddard: Guthrie’s actually got something to do with that story as well. The idea of bagpipes was around. Jon Stockman [bassist] did this guitar part on the demo; this tinny, high sort of thing that triggered the idea. It has this Highlander-like vibe to it.
While we were recording there was an interview with Hans Zimmer where Rick Beato was talking about bagpipes on the Dune soundtrack. Zimmer said, “Actually, they're not real – that's Guthrie playing it on the guitar.” We went and saw Guthrie, because Forrester Savell had worked on The Aristocrats’ album too.
Just to get the idea of bagpipes I downloaded an IR for the Axe-Fx, and I got this rough, one-take of the drone the whole way through. Then I did this pentatonic thing – how a ‘non-piper’ like myself would think a bagpipe solo could go. The song’s in B, a semitone above what the bagpipes can do, so we thought, “We should try some real bagpipes, but we’re gonna have to pitch it down.”
Hosking: My cousin, Grant Scroggie, plays pipes in a Celtic band called Claymore. We sent him the parts, pitched down to B flat, and got him to blow over it. Having the actual bagpipe sounds added a flavor that we otherwise might not have got.
Goddard: Grant said, “That was the best bagpipe solo I’ve heard by a non-bagpiper!” When he sent it back he was like, “I reckon you should leave the fake bagpipes in there as well.”
Hosking: He was like, “If you don’t use this, let me know – I want to steal it for something else!”
You could potentially play the record all the way through live. Is that something you’d consider?
Goddard: We’ve done Themata and Sound Awake from start to finish. It would be a hell of a challenge, but, maybe that’s something we’d do. I’d love to have a real harpist like my friend Michelle, who played harp on Opal; and have bagpipes and strings. But that’s even more challenging. We’ll see.
Hosking: It’s nice when you hear an album from start to finish. I mean, it’s no Wizard of Oz soundtrack, but it’s weird when you’ve got a collection of individual songs that, when you do hear them in a particular order, kind of feels right. I think we’ve got it sitting pretty well on this one.
What song do you think is going to take the most woodshedding to perform live?
Goddard: I think Remote Self Control. [Drummer] Steve Judd’s got his work cut out on a few of those songs. Salva is going to be challenging, even though it’s only three chords. It’s the subtleties – the dynamics and getting a lot of the layers happening.
Hosking: And now one of us has to learn bagpipes!
- In Verses is out now.
You must confirm your public display name before commenting
Please logout and then login again, you will then be prompted to enter your display name.
